Curse

Zuranthium · Apr 30, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

I'm trying to create a build that uses skills from ALL 10 classes (hence the Rainbow title), does not use ANY hexes, can split well, can pressure hard AND potentially spike two targets at the same time, can chain-run flags, and is fairly resilient against the hex meta.

Sounds impossible, huh? Add your ideas to the mix. Here's what I've got currently:

http://gwshack.us/b3678

The Dervishes use Extend Enchantments to abuse Blood is Power and dish out tons of damage (Extend also increases the duration of powerful Monk prot spells which is important since they have lower armor than a Warrior, although Watch Yourself helps with that too).

The Mesmer is extremely weird, I KNOW, but Echo is very versatile...copy a Purge Signet for additional hex removal, a P-drain for extra energy in the correct situation, or Blackout to really help force kills (or to play defensively...you can deny two Warriors of their adrenaline skills). Mantra of Resolve helps to protect against interrupts on your crucial abilities, especially with Heal Party against hex teams - a Migraine Mesmer is totally useless again this guy, aside from slowing his casting time. Power Return and Signet of Humilty won't do a thing to stop the red bars from going up.

Funnily enough, the "splitability" of the team comes a lot from the Paragons, who can provide excellent speed boosts to everyone. "Lead the Way" should always be kept on the D/A, as he has no boost of his own to chase kiting opponents, and "Make Haste" is a cheaper ability to help your Monks kite.

For the Monks, I definitely wanted Shield of Deflection because of how well it works with Extend Enchantments and also to allow the Mesmer to chain Blackouts when needed without getting owned. ZB is odd, I didn't think I'd ever see use for it again after the nerf, but it works well here because of the synergy with the BiP Paragon.

Yeah. I'm crazy. But I think this might work and could be very fun!

EDIT: Also, PS and SB can be switched on the Monks.

~Z

Thomas.knbk · Apr 30, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

wtf is up with Echo on that mesmer? there are like a million better mesmer builds out there. (and it hasn't got diversion?)
TBH I think the frontline is kinda meh. If you want to use skills from all classes you can change the monks to Mo/A and Mo/Me with Dark Escape/return and Hax Breaker, and change your warriors to a W/D with Rending Touch, another war, and scrap the mesmer altogether (that's pretty bad, imo) and put in a ranger.

Zuranthium · Apr 30, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

change your warriors to a W/D with Rending Touch

I WAS desperately trying to find a way to get some enchantment removal in here. I'm extremely sad that Lead + Offhand Assassin attacks suck right now. I'd totally use Golden Fox Strike + Fangs Fangs along with Shattering Assault on the D/A if the fox attacks recharged in 4 seconds (also if Shattering Assault's damage would get freaking un-bugged/un-retardized).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

wtf is up with Echo on that mesmer? there are like a million better mesmer builds out there. (and it hasn't got diversion?)

Diversion is a hex; no hexes allowed (part of the rules of this build). I thought it would be hilarious to see Echo get some play (and I do think it could be very useful, for the reasons mentioned), although in reality Shatterstorm really might need to be the Mesmer's Elite until ANET decides to fix Lead/Offhand/Dual attack chains so that I can give the D/A Shattering Assault.

~Z

Dodo The Extinct · Apr 30, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Zuranthium, you are my Hero :P

Echo ftw!

mrmango · May 01, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I love the idea. Keep trying with it, though the mesmer is indeed hard to use.
But the frontline leaves a lot to be desired.

Zuranthium · May 01, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

The frontline is all about damage. They can spam their attack skills basically non-stop with BiP and the Mysticism bonuses. The build is very effective at Miracle Ganks because of how quickly key members of the team can run to and own the Guild Lord.

~Z

Vermilion · May 01, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Echo makes me sad. Hex eater vortex ftw amirite? I know you have a couple purges but it seems fun. I was going to say something about having 2 prot monks, but I'd like to see how zb works with the bip and such. And heal party. :P

Looks funny anyway.

Zuranthium · May 09, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Hmmm, the paragons need major runes. I forgot about needing 9 Command to get the shield bonus. 35 health vs. 13 more armor. I'll definitely take 13 armor for the BiP guy, he's saccing a bit less health to BiP that way anyway.

~Z

Skuld · May 09, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Omg Drugs R Bad

Patccmoi · May 11, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

I'd really really consider a self-heal on that BiP Paragon if i were you and maybe a LoD monk. You realize that a LOT of your characters heavily depend on BiP (bad thing on splits btw) and that's 33% health you have to heal every time. Now your only real direct heals that make bars go up are ZB and Gift (Infuse but that doesn't exactly make your team bars go up, it transfers your red bar), and if you ever need them for something else (and trust me you will) that BiP sac will just eat you. Fit some solid self-heal if you really plan to use BiP.

Oh, and i can't really consider that those Derv are worth other more common melee pressure chars. I'll admit i didn't test them atm, but they seem very energy intensive (you can't have too many rely on BiP even if you have it in case of split) and kinda clumsy, i dunno. And Moebius is nice pressure but you better have INCREDIBLE hex removal to use it in the current meta because if you're stuck with Price, Blurred, Faint or Reckless Haste it'll make you swear, trust me. You just won't manage to pressure with it at all, less than any other kind of melee would under the same conditions because their base attack are at least worth something. I played it as stand char in GvG (well as Sin) and ended up giving up because of curse necros.

Zuranthium · May 11, 2007, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Omg Drugs R Bad

But alcohol isn't.

I updated the build! This version is tastier; I managed to get ZB off the second Monk and still efficiently keep the BiPer's health up (Dwayna's Kiss). Apply Poison and Order of Pain means more overall pressure.

My only wish is that Heart of Fury had half the duration but a 20 second recharge. Then everything would be perfect.

EDIT: Heh, already got those things in there Pat. There IS incredible hex removal for the melee's, however, so the "miss" hexes would not have been a problem at all for the Mobius Dervish. However, I replaced it anyway. I really wanted an interrupt on one of the melee's and it just didn't fit with the 4 attack skills the Mobius chain required.

~Z

Patccmoi · May 11, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

one thing that seems severly lacking imo is a reliable snare. Crippling Anthem honestly isn't, you don't stop people running far from you efficiently with it, or delay a flag runner well, etc. Your build has 0 kd or snare out of Crippling Anthem and this leaves the other team pretty much free to move at will. No matter if you can move fairly fast, if they snare you and you can't really snare them, your pressure is gonna be extremely hard to apply.

Since you refuse to use hexes and you can't have an hydro, i'd consider something like Harrier's Grasp somewhere, or a ranger with Grenth's Grasp, etc.

A Cripslash warrior with Bull's Strike could be useful instead of one of the melee maybe. And personally i think that this Necro is gonna feel like crying with all the Life Sac he has to do even if Blood Renewal gives him some energy back. You gotta realize that you have very little in terms of damage mitigation out of your 2 monks and WY!, and if they start pressuring you hard or manage to Diversion SoD, adding additional pressure on your monk yourself because your Necro is a sac machine isn't the best idea. I'd really scrap the BiP idea and use a more useful guy there (I'd likely opt for a ranger. Cripshot could be quite nice considering your lack of reliable snares) and make a different melee offensive.

Also if you really wanna keep that dual Paragon, i'd opt for 2 x Godspeed over 2 x Make Haste!. Godspeed could be nearly maintained if they chain it and it's very good when you have an Aegis chain (and atm Orders and other enchants on your melee). It could also allow you to drop Lead the Way! and take something more useful there.

Zuranthium · May 12, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Also if you really wanna keep that dual Paragon, i'd opt for 2 x Godspeed over 2 x Make Haste!. Godspeed could be nearly maintained if they chain it and it's very good when you have an Aegis chain (and atm Orders and other enchants on your melee). It could also allow you to drop Lead the Way! and take something more useful there.

Wow, I totally forgot about that skill. Very helpful suggestion. I can drop Wild Blow for Harrier's Grasp on one of the Dervish now and instead put Wild Throw on the P/W as the stance-killer in the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Your build has 0 kd or snare out of Crippling Anthem and this leaves the other team pretty much free to move at will. No matter if you can move fairly fast, if they snare you and you can't really snare them, your pressure is gonna be extremely hard to apply.

They won't be able to snare (or disable, for that matter) the melee very well considering "It's Just a Flesh Wound." and Pious Restoration.

Crippling Anthem really is great for general pressure by itself too. I think you de-value it. Signet Humility kills their RC and if they have draw, that guy only has so much energy.

Quote:

You gotta realize that you have very little in terms of damage mitigation out of your 2 monks and WY!, and if they start pressuring you hard or manage to Diversion SoD, adding additional pressure on your monk yourself because your Necro is a sac machine isn't the best idea.

Erm, there's MORE damage mitigiation here than in most highly offensive-oriented builds. Most teams don't even have SoD in the first place, but that's possible here because of a Paragon having the Elite condi removal. Also, the Necro provides more defense through BiP (not the other way around as you sugguest) because of giving the Monks ridiculous amounts of energy. A single Dwayna's Kiss heals the entire of amount of health that he loses from a BiP...that's just 5 energy out of the 24 energy the Monks are gaining from the BiP. LoD is also healing him quite often at no added expenditure than normal.

EDIT: Although, that said, I think an Air Runner would be better overall for the build anyway.

~Z

MAdnRisKy · May 12, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

You have precisely 1 hex removal, beyond the self removal on the dervishes.

Just a thought, but I'd look into this.

gasmaskman · May 12, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

You have precisely 1 hex removal, beyond the self removal on the dervishes.

Just a thought, but I'd look into this.

Purge and Veil = 1?

Zuranthium · May 13, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I really would like a 3rd targeted hex removal somewhere but there's simply no spot to fit it. Still, it's workable for this build since the Dervish can keep themselves clean.

~Z

Patccmoi · May 13, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I really would like a 3rd targeted hex removal somewhere but there's simply no spot to fit it. Still, it's workable for this build since the Dervish can keep themselves clean.

~Z

You could always change Brace Yoursefl! for 'Hexbreaker Aria'. You have lots of people with spells on the team (every1 but Paras) and it's quite nice in my experience against hex pressure builds. Especially good at getting rid of cover hexes so that targetted hex removal are more efficient.

Zuranthium · May 13, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

I'd want the extra hex removal to help combat anti-attacking crap on the Paragons themselves and Diversion/Shame spam. Hexbreaker Aria does nothing to fight those problems.

~Z